About This Episode
Next Mile Episode 133: How Great Operators Turn Complexity into Growth with Jennifer Goldman. A conversation about wealth management, fintech, and the future of financial advisory firms.
with Jennifer Goldman · February 24, 2026
Next Mile Episode 133: How Great Operators Turn Complexity into Growth with Jennifer Goldman. A conversation about wealth management, fintech, and the future of financial advisory firms.
We actually do a chart of levels of authority and roles in each area of the business. And I get the CEOs that grown. They're like, "Well, my name's in half of the cells. I'm in marketing.
I'm in sales. I'm in CL. " >> I said, "Yeah, do you want out? >> All you got to do is say it.
" [laughter] I think that's half the battle of going from the 300 to the bill. And frankly, I'm going to be honest. I think it's the battle of the bill to the 10 billion. It's the same battle.
[music] >> [music] >> Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Next Mile. I'm your host Kyle Vanpelt, co-founder at Milemarker, and today I am joined by Jen Goldman. Jen is the founder of My Virtual COO, and she is, I'm sorry to say, a long-suffering Bills fan. Jen, thanks so much for joining the show.
>> No problem. No problem. Glad that's behind us. Moving on.
Looking forward. [laughter] >> Yeah, we're recording this pretty much right after the Super Bowl happened. And I have to tell you, I totally thought this was Buffalo's year, right, with the Chiefs kind of got knocked out. They had their issues.
Like it seemed like the whole path was cleared for Josh Allen and the Bills. And it just the Bills are going to build. I mean again I am so old that I can tell you the story of Jim Kelly showing up at a certain institution I would go to and like everybody hears like let's all pray for that like seriously and how many years. Yeah.
And I had to marry a Giants fan. So you want to talk about pain? At least this year we almost made it and he didn't. So we're good.
>> That's crazy. You know I've talked to a couple of other people about this. This isn't how I normally start things but since you're a Bills fan I've got to know why have they not built a dome? is is being in the snow in the cold.
Like is that just a part of it? They're like if you're a Bills fan, we're not sitting in a dome. Like even if it's retractable, like this is a part of it. We're going to get out and shovel it together.
This is a part of the community. >> Yeah. It's actually it's the number one question even of the Bills fans and we and I even looked it up. So there's two elements.
One is yes, we tough it out. We're there. We're going to, you know, whatever the way they did the the dome and it's also about cost. There's no question New York State couldn't afford to close the dome.
So, it's like a half dome with green, which means that supposedly, and now I'm from Buffalo, I can tell you this not going to work to whatever the engineers. Um, it's supposed to stop most of the snow from coming in and everything is heated. >> So, like just, you know, so watch everybody dig out every game. You pay 20 bucks, everybody grabs a shovel.
That shouldn't happen anymore, even if it snows inside. But, yeah, it is about toughing it out. I will tell you, if going to the Bills game, you wore the fullon gear, couldn't see the face, but >> Yeah. Yeah, I have to imagine because you're sitting there for a while and you're not moving.
I mean, a ton. So, >> well, but in Buffalo, you are like, this is the one thing you you don't go and sit. Like, you're up and you're down and then you're up and then you're up for a while. Like, even if you're in the nosebleleeds, you're up.
So, yeah, I would, just to be fair, [laughter] this we don't sit still very long. >> All right. So, normally this is my first question, but you and I are already a couple of questions in, but I'm going to get to this question that I typically ask. And the question I love to ask is, I've had hundreds of these conversations and everybody has a unique path to our industry.
Some people it's traditional. They follow in family footsteps. Other people they didn't even know this was an industry they could work in and they come in the side door. But what we found is whether your path is traditional or untraditional, everybody has what we call a money moment.
And that's that moment in your life where the light bulb clicks on and you say, "This is it. This is what I want to do. " So, Jen, for you, what was that moment that led you to where you're at right now having this conversation with me? >> Yeah, it's a convoluted path, but I can tell you the first moment is actually sitting next to my dad.
I think I was around 12 and he had this little brown book and he actually wrote out his net well statement in it. So, I am dating myself. We did have a computer at the time too to do basic like Excel. But I loved the idea of knowing about money in, money out.
I loved knowing the financial freedom like I got to witness my parents coming from lower middle class even if that and knowing that they were gonna have a good future. And so I think that's when I really got hooked because I could tell you that story and I didn't even know you're going to ask that. And then from there I worked at a bank, I worked as insurance like I did a bunch of different things around money and that's when I just said this is it. Like I I'm an ex reformed whatever financial planner.
So, I was the first Smith Barney women rookie in Boston. I was the first to get the CFP in their branch. I was the first to do fee only. So, can you tell there's a trend here?
Um, [laughter] yeah. From there, switching out to being provider, that was just about viral spread. Like, can we just help more consumers and businesses? But yeah, my MO was sitting next to dad doing the numbers, realizing financial freedom was in, you know, you could see it in the future.
>> Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. I love that. Okay, so we're going to talk about a bunch of stuff as it pertains to running profitable firms and everything like that.
But for those of you who aren't looking at this on video or seeing any of the video, I am struck by Jen's background because Jen in the background has three just very interesting, telling things. She has a copy of Green Eggs and Ham. She has a copy of Lean Six Sigma. And then she has a Gumby figurine on her desk in the back.
And Jen, I've just got to ask you, what is the correlation of those three things to running an RAIA practice or an RIA firm? >> Yeah, absolutely. Great question. First ever asked, too.
So, Green Eggs and Ham is about trying new things. Lean Sigo is running a lean business. So, that I'm going to be honest, the rewards go to your people on your team, maybe forward- facing to client experiences, and I'm big into charitable giving, so running lean. And then the Gumby is the tug and pull.
>> Like honestly, I think any of us that wear more than one hat in a business get pulled in different directions, right, in any given day. And the reason for the Gumby to be funny is because you can put the arms in certain positions. And I joke about giving people the Heisman. Like I used to give out danger tape like leave me alone.
And now not this Gumby, but others are like, "Yeah, stop. Walk away. I have boundaries. " So that's my my three.
>> I love that. I love that. Yeah. And I think that's right.
I mean, I think especially in today's world, everything's moving as fast as can be and we have to be very adaptive and you have to be able to stretch and do multiple things and all of that type of stuff. And so Gumby is kind of a great mascot for what it takes to operate in today's world. >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
>> All right. So, I want to ask you this question. This is a question I actually love to ask to folks like yourselves. So a lot of the people who are prominent and who are known and who are easy to find in our space are more of the sales focused or business development focused or marketing focused people.
And it's because it's hard to find superstar operators because they are heads down operating the businesses and making it happen. So I'm really curious to hear your take on what does it take to be a great operator, right? And I'll put a comma on that and say so many of the firms we work with, a lot of the people that we talk to in the space are running on EOS, if you're familiar with EOS and traction. And everybody loves this dichotomy of the visionary and the integrator, right?
And everybody's looking for the integrator, but they're so hard to find. >> They're so hard to find. So, how do you find great operators and how do you get them to join you and come and be a great operator for you? >> Yeah.
So, let me give you a caveat only because if anybody Googles, they'll find it. So back in the day I was asked to write part of Bob Barry's white paper and I said you know the third piece we're missing and this will tie in I swear is the chief of staff. So we can talk about the visionary and we can talk about the integrator but the third is running the team. Now to the integrator or the operator they have to do constellation thinking.
So how do you find them? I used to joke take a polyai major give them a puzzle. If they can do part of it they're golden. They are people that can think if I change let's say this automation who does that affect on the team and what do I have to do to fill their time because they just lost a responsibility if we grow by X what does that mean for our staff structure so they're always thinking about other pieces of the business impacted by the piece that they're changing that's a true operator integrator >> in terms of brain it's not easy there are more operators out there but I don't think we groom room and nurture them because we don't give them enough time to do this type of thinking.
When you're a smaller business, okay, all I get when you're a smaller business, right, you want that operator to just get stuff done. Just you throw the kitchen sink, right? But then when you get bigger, you want that person to now think constellation style and strategic. >> It's a muscle.
They haven't used it. >> Okay, I want to double click on something because I love this phrase constellation style and I don't want people to just assume they know what that means. So, can you double click on that and explain for us what you mean by constellation thinking? >> Yeah, I'll talk about my mind and how it works.
It's actually called relational complexity, but I like constellation thinking. I made it up. I think it's more fun. But this idea that when you touch on humans, then you need to think about process.
When you touch on process, you might need to think about profitability. There's about four or five pieces that you need to think about with every change to really have it be sustainable and to scale. So again, constellation thinking is just be boopping around through all the areas of the business when you're only working on one piece at a time. It's a visual.
I can't it's hard to explain. >> Okay. So let me let me just walk with you on that because when I think about constellation, I'm thinking about okay, yeah, you've got something in the center and then there's like all of these things sort of orbiting around it, but they are in order in some way, right? They're not chaos.
There is design. There's something to it. And so you are kind of the for lack of a better term gravitational field that is pulling all of these things together. And I do think to be a great operator like you can't just have your lane.
I mean you have to be able to understand how a lot of things are being impacted and affected. Is that >> Yeah. Let's make it real simple. It's like connecting the dots.
Remember the old color coloring books? I'm dating myself again. Right. Where you're connecting the dots.
There's no numbers and you have to know which one to go through or getting through a maze. That's constellation thinking. >> Yeah. >> I love it.
I love it. I love it. Okay. Some people call it seeing around corners too and things like that.
Right. >> That's right. And I think and if I could go on your words, the order, this is where people get stuck. So you said like like how to groom that or how to find that.
Some people have analysis paralysis. They want perfect linear order. A constellation thinker knows that's not real. >> Yeah.
Yep. [snorts] >> I mean there's there's naturally I'm an ops person, right? I'm a geek. There is order.
There is processes. But I also know in any given day or in any given hour, I do have to think sometimes creatively at the same time as linearly. >> I think that's right. And I think too, you know, one of the things people often talk about is you have to be able to make decisions and act with imperfect information.
And that is also the antithesis of just linear like this happens then this happens then this happens. Right. >> Right. And then shift and then fail and then small win and then oh god like I can use all the terms.
I literally even to myself as much as I've done this for so long I have literally a quote on my wall that says progress over perfection because an operator has aims for progress and realizes there's going to be fails along the way. The trick with an operator and this is what you hope with them is they're not risk hungry. I think CRO sales people they're like yeah I'll take the risk owners take the risk and operators a little more risk adverse but they can't be too much. So they go into it thinking, okay, if I fail, I have a backup plan.
>> Yeah. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about that and the dealing with nonlinear >> with I feel like the buzzword for operators right now is standard operating procedure or systems or processes, right? And maybe this is you're double clicking on this desire to have linear progress or whatever.
It's like if everything just fits into my SOPs and my processes and my systems, then nothing will go wrong and there will be no chaos. So, but those are important, right? Getting people to do things the same way. You know, Chick-fil-A, they make a chicken sandwich the same way every time, right?
And this type of stuff. So, how do you balance the need for systems and processes and SOPs and it ain't going to work that way, right? Like that is ideal if everything goes ideal, but you got to be ready for chaos and craziness. >> Yeah, you have to be ready, but you have to give people stability, right?
Like you lose certain people on the team if you're not stable. And we hear that all the time. So, you can bifrocate it. So let's say you p your processes inside you guys know I'm CRM junkie so you put them in the CRM right and that's where your processes reside but when you're thinking strategically that's not actually the same tool >> when you're thinking constellation style so I use Lucid I use whiteboarding all the time okay I'm very much about visual and I use a project management tool only because it's fluid I can move things around I can tuck things I can untuck things and so on so forth so that's how I separated it to get it all in one tool.
We are looking at one, but I've never seen it. So, I think that helps. So, I know like when you're in the CRM, very standard, right? Those are follow.
When you're outside of it, you get to think creative. >> I love that because a lot of times operations people are not linked with the term creativity, but I think it's great that you're dialing into no, you still have to be creative. It might not look like marketing creative or things like that, but there is a lot of creativity in how we have to execute things when things go off the rails a little bit. >> That's right.
I mean, listen, just to be fair, you're right. It's not a marketing brain that, you know, to me, I could never be that, right? And no, it's just it's complicated in all the attention to detail and the big picture and all that. But again, you're absolutely right.
You do have to flow with it. You do have to kind of see things that others don't see. The joke is and I wish I had it in front of me. I wore like to a a networking thing and it just says I can see things you can't see and I know how to fix them.
That is an operator. That is an integrator. >> Yeah, I love that. Okay, so the one thing I really wanted to talk with you about was about profitability.
So this is something I feel like is becoming a big conversation here at mile marker. all of this stuff is the industry loves to look at aum and I get it like that's a kind of a good easy benchmark to look at but the reality is revenue is what matters more than aum because I could go get 10 billion in aum and charge 0. 00001% 00001% and it doesn't really matter how much AUM I have. So what's your fee schedule against the AUM you have?
And then how do you actually run profitably off of that revenue that you have? And one of the things you're pretty well known for is the challenges of profitability when you kind of get into that messy middle as I call it that 300 million to a billion range where there's a lot of things that happen in that realm for the principle of an RAIA right you're like hey we're doing really well but you hit these challenges are we going to spend to grow are we going to kind of cut back and turn this into a lifestyle profitability practice etc but can you talk to us about what you're seeing of the mess that happens in that area in the messy middle. >> Yeah, I'll leave the psychology out because that is huge in that middle. That is a big So, we're very much when we work through that, we're very much doing profitability projections and I'll try to explain it in two ways.
One is a simple P&L with all the new ideas in it, all the new potential revenue ideas or you know or all the new expenses and then separately the client experiences. That's when we see and some may take offense to this but that's the time to start thinking about shedding >> and right we can digitize and we can do all those things in this industry but at some point we just had this conversation today with a exactly a firm in this spot okay and they're like it's time to shed it's time to let go and the way we did it is by revenue not by aum we don't care about aum >> I got to be honest with you I get for valuations I get for M&A and all that fun stuff but at the end of the day it the revenue and the revenue that's sticky. So to deal with it, you have to take the emotions out and I think that's why you do visuals. So let's you know marketing, why does marketing work?
It's visual, right? It hits quickly. Same with the idea of seeing a P&L projection. Same with seeing these are my different client segments and this is my average revenue per client.
We don't have to talk too much once we do that. >> They know the answer. >> It's emotional. Like today, you know, we're talking about, okay, you got to let go of those 85 clients.
They're producing, you know, 55,000 or Okay, by the way, that's dragging your team down. They can't they can't bring on more, right? By not having aum in there, by not having names in there, instantly they're like, "Yeah, okay. " >> H Yeah, that's super interesting.
One of the other big things I see in that messy middle is you hit the crossroads, especially at a billion, but even before that, I feel like we we always joke that there's some sort of filter that hits that once you cross that, all of a sudden you start getting calls from all of these big firms saying, "Hey, do you want to sell? Do you want to do this? " Whatever. And it is this crossroads I see everybody get to of, "Do I want to become the platform or do I want to join a platform?
" And I think so much of that actually does hinge on how are you doing operationally, right? How chaotic is it? How systematized is it? How profitable are we?
You know, is this mousetrap and system really running the way we want? But I'm curious from your perspective what you think about that when these firms cross those thresholds and they get to that fork in the road. What do you think is the big determiner for which path they choose to go down? >> I'm going to agree with you with different words.
It's how they've groomed the team. If they've groomed the team to lead and think bigger, then they're going to feel better. Most of the time they haven't. So when they're getting to that crossroad, it's like, wow, do I really want to take this on?
Do I have the energy and the time? And what they're not seeing to be fair is building out what I call the seauite, right? Like maybe I can give up being ahead of the staff working with clients and just go out and do bisdev. So I as much as I would say it's operation, I think it comes down to people.
I think it comes down to the skills, right? What you allowed people to groom up to and if you're ready to give up some hats. That's what I'm seeing. >> And there is, listen, we can talk about the word fatigue all day, right?
There's consultant fatigue, they're me, there's there's fatigue at running the business. And then there's also the thought of I have to emotionally work through the idea that I'm no longer the only one in the seauite. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> We do a little exercise. I'm proud of this one. I have to mention it. Yeah, it's >> so simple that you'll be maybe even horrified.
We actually do a chart of levels of authority and roles in each area of the business. We've done this like with and I get the CEOs that grown. They're like, "Well, my name's in half of the cells. I'm in marketing.
I'm in sales. I'm in CL. " >> I said, "Yeah, do you want out? >> All you got to do is say it.
" [laughter] I think that's half the battle of going from the 300 to the bill. And frankly, I'm going to be honest. I think it's the battle of the bill to the 10 billion. It's the same battle.
>> Well, especially there because I think once you cross a billion and if you say I don't want to join one of the big consolidators, you almost have to kind of say, well, we have to become something that looks like a platform, you know, cuz to go from 1 to 10, you either have to have an unbelievable marketing engine, right? So, you have to have something where you have leads and flow that is that is way disproportionate to the rest of the industry or you got to recruit advisers or, you know, that's that's what's next. And so it really becomes, oh, we have to become a platform now. And it's so funny to watch the journey of of these adviserss.
And a lot of them say it themselves, hey, I got into this business to just be a planner to help clients. Then all of a sudden, I'm a CEO and I've got people reporting to me and like I've got this business now and I just wanted to be a planner. And now all of a sudden, I've got other adviserss who are looking to me for this and I've got a team and I've got a this and I don't even spend any time planning anymore or working with clients maybe a little bit. What happened?
Right? How did I go from somebody who wanted to do asset management and financial planning to running this enterprise and like this is never what I wanted but here I am and I guess I might as well go along for the ride. >> Yeah, I think so. And then I think there's also the epiphany of I don't like this ride anymore, right?
Or I don't want to be involved in the platform. I guess there was an owner the other day. I was at a conference and he's like I just went out of all operations. I'm like you're at 20 billion.
Why are you in operations? [laughter] Why are you still there? you know, I mean, like this is right and this is a firm that's fiercely independent, right? They do not want to sell out and and I totally love that, respect that, but I'm like, dude, you got to do your own chart again and get yourself out.
I think it's the idea of getting yourself out of the room, letting others make decisions and fails. And this is hard. It's absolutely hard to watch other people do the fails, right? And I agree with you on the platform.
I want to be clear though, when I say platform, I'm not talking about technology. I'm talking about the mix of the tech, the process, and the people. And I know you are too, but for those that listen, they're thinking, "Oh, it's the software. I can just buy it.
" It doesn't >> Yeah. >> No, no. I mean, again, I think you don't see there are there is I probably can count on one or two hands the amount of raas that are north of 10 billion that have not grown by recruiting other adviserss. And again, we could talk about the nuances there.
Hey, we have W2 advisors that serve all of the people coming in. Okay, that's different versus no, I am going and getting established people to join the way we're doing it because they say I like the way you're doing it. I want to be a part of that and I want to serve my clients and I don't want to be this business owner. And that's the platform that Jen and I are both talking about.
>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Let's talk a little bit about technology. Well, we can't talk about technology without talking about AI. But what I want to specifically ask you is the challenge our industry has is the regulatory environment with AI, right?
given compliance constraints, what is your practical roadmap for implementing this type of stuff right now? >> Yeah, to be fair, we're working with firms under the billion mark that are going through that dangerous, you know, that dangerous middle phase and they're really not even adopting the basics. So, it's not going to be exciting when I have to say I mean the reality is obviously taking notes in meetings, obviously looking at summaries. I mean, back in gez, three years ago, I was doing this.
nobody's still doing the sentiment. Knowing how you're coming across to your clients and your staff and meetings, these tools can tell you that. So, I think just on a basic level, having them quote in the room and then looking at the data that comes out of them, that's what I'm telling them to do. As far as doing automation from, for example, it's on a call, it does a summary, it sends a task to the CRM, it kicks off a workflow.
Yeah, absolutely. That's great, too, because that's in a controlled environment. But externally, we're not making recommendations about external use outside of that. Not yet because we'd just be happy with that part.
We would just be happy if they just did that. >> Okay. I've got to ask you because this is the hottake of the industry right now because you mentioned the notetakers, right? And I know you are a CRM queen, right?
And that's a lot of what you do, right? So the whole hot take is that these notetakers are going to basically replace or unseat the CRM and you're not going to need both anymore. even though a lot of them play nice in the sandbox anymore. What's your take on that?
Somebody who actually isn't theorizing, but you live in the weeds of that every single day. >> Wow, that's for and I do think very far ahead and I have to be careful. I can't see the notetakers replacing the CRM if the CRM keeps evolving. The reason is because the notetakers can take it, but I don't even see them prioritizing.
And let me be clear. I believe in using systems to track both external what you're doing for the clients, what you're doing for your leads, but also internal what you're doing for the business. I believe it's an all-encompassing data. I'm not going to call it a data lake cuz you know there's call but like it's all-encompassing.
So for that AI to listen to all the meetings and the calls whether it's internal or external to put it in a system and then prioritize it, that's what I'd have to do. You'd have to set perfect goals and perfect rules around, okay, clients come first, business comes second. Well, then we know what happens. The business is going to die.
You can't put business first because the So, I don't know. >> Okay. I like that. I like, again, I think I think it's easy to just come and say, "Wow, these people have built cool things, you know, uh, every everything else is going to die.
" I mean, I even think outside of our industry, it's amazing if you look at what's happening to Salesforce or HubSpot's stock prices right now in the the midst of all of this because of this notion of, oh, you could just vibe code a CRM over the weekend and use it. And it's like, man, I just I think there's so much more to it than that. There is. And like even like the tools like somebody just came out with the huge and I think it hurt all the big financial firms, the like the warehouses, this DIY type of financial planning tool.
And I'm like, wait a minute. A human, a family has multiple things they have to work on in their finances. I don't know. I'll speak for myself.
Like, I'm a family with kids, whatever. Like, I'm saving for education at the same time as thinking about retirement. Yeah, I got to get my state. I mean, right away, I got to somebody's got to prioritize that for me.
So, maybe in the end, maybe that's the answer. It's until that we see that prioritized. And when it does, I'm going to get scared. >> This podcast is brought to you by Turncast.
We make gamechanging content for fintech and financial services companies. Learn more at turncast. com. >> Hey, NextM listeners, Jessica here from Milemarker.
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co co and mention the next mile podcast and I'll personally make sure to get the insights you need to take control of your data and scale your practice [music] because your time should be spent building your business not buried in spreadsheets. [music] >> So let's double click on CRM just a little bit cuz I know you love this stuff. So at mile marker we do produce data links for everybody and you know our entire product is we consolidate all of the data from all the tech they use and then we let them build whatever views workflows anything on top of all of that consolidated data and one of the number one problems that we run into that our clients talk to us about is I don't trust the data in my CRM right like we try our best with it but a lot of times like it's like doing the dishes or doing chores right the cobwebs build up or something along those lines and it's supposed to be my the place I trust stuff But when I sink that in, I know there's going to be a bunch of mess. So, how would you deal with the juxtaposition of that?
The CRM should be something where they're really operating and running their business. But a lot of times the data doesn't stay all the way up to date, right? If they're not completely diligent about it, if they don't do the dishes right when they finish the meal, as I like to say, it can pile up on them. >> Yeah.
Well, I think one is you have to think of how the data is coming in and if there's certain things that you can do to have better data coming in because what is it? You know, data in data out kind of. >> Secondly, >> this is where that operator integrator comes in. >> I mean, it it's not just getting the day-to-day done.
It's the proactive maintenance. I'm a I'm a hog about like clean out that email box and by the way the sent and the deleted items in the CRM run the reports and look at that and be proactive about staying ahead of your data. Your data is so important, right? It's telling you stories.
If you don't keep it clean, it's not going to tell you what you need to do next with the business. If you do, it's amazing. So, I'm just going to say that, and I'm sure you guys know much more about the tech on this and the data lake and the flows. I would just say you still need the human in there to run the reports, look at data crud, and clean it up, and then also think back, what can we do better going forward?
>> Yeah. Okay. All right. I appreciate that.
>> You're allowed to disagree with me. No, I mean I So, so again, I I come before being a co-founder and all of that, I come from more of a sales background, right? And the the joke historically is like sales people are notoriously bad at keeping up with their notes and everything inside of a CRM. However, if you call them and say, "What's going on with this account?
" They'll probably be able to tell you everything that's going on with it. The CRM just doesn't reflect what they know. And I know a lot of advisers are that way, right? So I think is it entirely the integrator's job to make sure that all of that stuff is right and where it needs to be or is this is I guess this is the argument is a lot of the note takers like they're right there in there and the whole notion is like they have that perfect data from the meeting that they're going ahead and capturing and putting the note and all of that.
So maybe it is a combination of both at the end of the day. >> I don't think it's the CEO, the integrator, whatever you want to call them, job to clean it up. I think it's their job to bring light to it and say we have a problem >> and with this problem of data crud, we're not going to get out what we need to make good business decisions or good client decisions >> and then crowdsource. I'm a big person in productive collaboration though and this idea like no one person should be trying to do this on their own.
It's like talking to a volleyball, right? The Tom Hanks and you're losing your mind. I mean I think they just put a light shine a light on it and then bring it back to those that are >> quote inputting or lack thereof. They're not putting in the data, right?
The adviser that leaves the client meeting and doesn't write any notes. We remember that from how many years. Now we have AI to solve that. But even so, let's take a look at it.
>> I think that's right. And actually, funny enough, it comes full circle to what you said at the beginning of this that none of this is linear, right? Like CRM will never be linear. Noteakers, it's not going to make it linear.
And even we see this on the consolidation of all their data to data lakeink. Like it's never linear. People want it to just be almost this easy button of get all of it there, push an easy button and fix it all. And it's just it's never that linear, right?
Because really data is just a reflection of you operating at the end of the day. >> That's exactly that's right. And that's where it goes back to progress over perfection. If you shine a light, you see little changes you can make.
Kenzens, you go and change them, data gets better. And by the way, that's a scalable business. Businesses cannot scale 300 billion 10 unless they're constantly continuously improving. And it doesn't have to be this heavy lift.
Just shine a light, make a small change, keep going. By the way, that I talk about young people learning. Young people need to see that because if they don't see that along with a little bit of fails, they are not going to grow to be your seuite. And if you think that's your succession plan, you better start them when they're young through that cycle of don't just do the work I gave you, use your brain a little bit and think next time could I do it better.
>> Double click on that because I think that that's actually a really powerful statement that we shouldn't just sort of gloss over because a lot of these episodes I talk about the war for talent. I talk about how hard it is for everybody to get great talent, young talent who wants to be there. There are some people who say, "Hey, this is actually the advantage that the big consolidators have is because they have this national brand, they have resources, they have a career trajectory. Whereas, if I just want to go work with the three or four person RAA, as great as they might be, they're not going to have a career plan for me or whatever.
" It's like, "Hey, just come in and be Gumby and we'll figure it out later, right? " Yeah, but talk to me about how the people listening to this can really develop talent and help lean in to do what you just said, which is, hey, don't just do the task, but think about how it could have been done better or how we can evolve as a company or how we can even make progress on the progress we're making, for lack of a better term. >> Yeah, that's even better. Like right in the moment, right, when you realize I mean the simple things, um, let's use Lula EOS with a little twist that we do on it.
So, we always believe that when you do a team meeting, and it may be a two-person team. I don't care what size you're talking about, celebrate the wins at the end, but also in that agenda, always say one thing we made progress on, one thing we improved, and let the team crowdsource that answer so it starts to embrace in the culture continuous improvement. So, first you do that, you celebrate that. Frankly, this is all about dopamine and and endorphins, okay?
Let me be honest, right? Like, we're all in for the dope hits. So, the dopamine hit is, right? Oh my god, pat on the back.
We just took what does that make people do? Want to do it more >> just like right. So I'm just gonna give you the simple do that. It spins well up.
And I use um if I could a DNA helix like that kind of spinning people think they're like in a circle and it's the mouse and the wheel and I'm like no no no we're spinning up. That's DNA that's evolving and and matching the scale of the business. >> I love it. All right.
I want to ask you one other thing about operations and then we can move into kind of my next two questions. So we've been all over with this conversation which is fun. This is how I like it to be. It's not linear just like you've been talking about.
So one of the things you were saying earlier was about that messy middle deciding whether or not to go to platform or whatever. But I think also let's say yep Jen I want to go become that platform. Well now your ops actually changes because we talk about this a lot too. You go from being a firm where investors are your only clients to now you actually have advisors as clients, right?
And then they've got clients there. And you have to build out systems and processes for how are we best going to serve those investors and clients because that's what attracts advisors to come here and be a part of our platform. But now we got to build out a whole additional operating layer for how we serve advisors. Especially if we want them to just go out and be doing business development.
We want them to be prospecting, building relationships, getting referrals. Well, we need to take as much of the operational burden off your plate as possible. Oh, by the way, that's one of the reasons you chose to came to our come to our firm is because we promised that would be the case. So, all that mouthful to say if they're sitting in the chair going, we've made this decision.
What are your tactical and practical tips for how to build out that new operating layer where you're serving advisors as clients just as much as you're serving investors? >> Yeah. So I'll tell you the ideal and then I'll tell you the reality. >> Okay, let's >> the ideal is you make a decision.
You don't have anybody in the pipeline an advisor team. Okay. So you build in in in dream world, right? You're whiteboarding.
You're writing out. Okay, these are things we would want done for us if we were joining and then you bake that into a system and then whoever gets to be the guinea pig, the first advisor team, you walk them through the steps and obviously you learn from that. Oh, we should have added this. They asked this many questions.
We could have nipped it with this uh flyer. We could have done this with our So that's the ideal that you're going to do the crowd sourcing around all that. And by the way, you're going to do it again crowd sourcing on this. You're going to have a CSA help.
You're going to have an adviser that's currently on the team help. You're going to have an exec help. You got to get all the brains in there. And who do you think facilitates?
The operator integrator. There you go. Okay. [laughter] The reality is, I mean, when we work with businesses, they're already in the throws.
They already got somebody in the pipeline. They're making the decision while they're courting somebody. Right. That's right.
Okay. So, what do we do? That's when you like literally there's it's design on the fly, but it's honestly right in the systems. >> It's right in the systems.
It's right in the tech map. So, on the systems, you're building out how you're going to onboard them >> and you're you're rushing through this, right? It's not ideal. On the marketing side, you're building out maybe a one pager of the pros and cons of joining versus joining someone else or being on your own.
And then I god there's so many pieces on this one, right? Profitability. You go to the P&L projection. You just throw me the numbers in there because you don't even know what your payout is, right?
I mean, that's really what's going on. And by the way, I don't know if you I just realized as I'm talking to you, I'm hitting on all the pieces, right? I'm now hitting on instead of the client experience, you're doing the advisor experience. That's the processes.
I'm hitting on the P&L projection, but now you're doing it around payouts, right? And expenses. I'm h tech map, right? like what is the tech stack I'm giving them and what am I holding back cuz they don't want more.
They're coming to you for like you said the easy button. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
That's so true about the reality of it, right? How often do we actually get all of this nice and planned out and everything before we go make those decisions. It's like, wow, this person says they want to join my firm. Yeah, that sounds great.
Oh, I guess I got to figure out what to do about this. Yeah. >> Yeah. And then afterwards, they're like, oh my god, I don't I don't want to do that again.
And I'm like, well, now let's pro operations. Yeah. So, I want to give you an opt to plug what you're doing then because if somebody's listening to this going, "Geez, this is just hitting home and I'm going to hire Jen. " Do you come in and just write the processes for me or like talk to me about what an engagement looks like with you if I do decide I'm going to pull you in and I want to make you a part of this and you know, you're going to help us go through the journey.
>> Yeah. Well, it's two levels, right? If you already have an operator on the team that just needs to be a higher level kind of seuite brain, then we're giving the guidance, we're giving the templates, we're walking them through. So sometimes we're just talking to the COOs and working them through and then they're out there implementing and yeah we have templates and guidance and starting points like nothing's a blank slate because you know that just slows everybody down to a halt.
If they don't have that kind of operator brain on the team then we are doing more. We're alongside between calls and project planning and process design. I mean you name it it's really from job descriptions to P&L projections. It's all there.
>> Yeah, >> it's all there. Our goal is obviously that you grow and hire an operator. >> Yeah, >> I'm going to give a plug for you because one of the things that we hear about what we do is if you get a data lake or data warehouse and you consolidate your data, it can increase your $750,000 to a million dollars because it just makes things so much better for the people who want to acquire you like everything's going to be cleaner, etc. I have to imagine that bringing someone like yourself in, getting all of these things documented, getting all of the processes laid out, implementing a lot of these things has to have a similar, if not a bigger enterprise value lift than, hey, we're just in here making it happen, but we're doing a really good job at making it happen.
So, if you're listening to this and you haven't done a lot of the things that Jen's been talking about for the past half hour, hire her to increase your enterprise value. Because if you're sitting in that messy middle, the question for you needs to start evolving from what is my personal income to what is the enterprise value of the firm? And Jen is like a great way for you to like rocket that. So that's my plug for what you're doing.
>> Thank you. Better than I could say it. I'll take it. But I [laughter] I would say for you too, right, this clarity around data and understanding pulling it together and using it effectively, I think it's so important and it doesn't lose.
It allows you to have more touch with the people around you, whether it's the clients, the advisor teams, or the I just I'm um yeah, big fan both ways. So, >> yeah. Thank you. All right.
This is the part where I'm going to ask you to get out your crystal ball. I want you to look a little bit into the future. I know you're a long-term thinker, but what are some of the things that an RAA listening to this or a broker dealer listening to this should be positioning themselves for 3 to 5 years down the road in the future for what's next? What's coming?
How do they get the ship ready for what's next? Yeah. The next is and I see this and you alluded to it about talent. The critical thinkers on the team is what the focus should be and obviously technology watching AI using these tools.
But if you're not building that critical thinking, empathetic but confident team, I do think you're going to have to tuck. I don't think you're going to make it through on your own anymore. And I'm sad to say that we're in this hyper accelerated space, you know, and now with AI and everything going on and with talent shortage, but that's my 3 to five year. And we're already seeing it.
I mean, I know you're seeing it. We're seeing it, right? This idea of staying independent and if you really want your legacy to be there beyond you, you better invest in that critical thinking, that higher level. Now, >> I love it.
I love it. >> What about you? Are you going to give you can only ask me? >> Oh, sure.
I mean, listen, I think we we see it all the time and you know, it's it's I everybody's talking about AI, but for us, I think AI is going to start to take over more and more of the tedious processes. We already see a lot of this happening. Obviously, it's a plug for us, but I candidly, I tell a lot of people this, we kind of got lucky with how we built the business. In order to run AI properly, you need to have all of your data in a place that you control, right?
So the regulators do not want you sending PII or things out to open large language models. They don't want things going outside of your walls. And if the SEC or FINRA comes in and they want to audit what's going on with this, they want to know that you have safely handled all of your clients data and the way that you're using AI. My marker is a great way for people to be able to consolidate that and then deploy AI against all of their data in one place while safely knowing it is done in a way that the regulators like.
So everybody's trying to figure out AI, but I think literally the prerequisite, whether you work with us or you do it yourself, is going to have to be we've got to get control of all of our data, not have it out on data islands and silos everywhere, so that we can be really confident that we know what's happening with our clients data. Because at the end of the day, this industry is an industry of trust. That's what we sell. That's what the the the advisers sell.
And so in order for everybody to have all of that trust, we just got to make sure that you know exactly what's going on. So that's my crystal ball. And obviously it's a little self- serving, but I'm in this business for a reason. And I think it's it's absolutely what's going to have to happen.
>> Well, for the greater good, you have to protect that data. And that is honestly, we're talking about people's welfare here. And yeah, as much as you say it's crystal ball, if people don't see that already, >> yeah, >> they've already missed the story line. >> You're totally right.
You're totally right. So, okay, we are going to move into the final segment of the show. I have loved this conversation, but this is what we call the mile marker minute. It is a series of lightning round questions aimed to get to know you a little bit better outside of your virtual COO.
So, are you ready for the mile marker minute? >> Absolutely not. But you're going to do it anyway, so go. >> You're right.
All right. If you could travel anywhere in the world you've never traveled to before, where would you go? >> Poland. >> Oh, great answer.
That's not one I hear very often. Alltime favorite Buffalo Bill. >> Oh. Oh, man.
Jim Kelly. I have to. >> Okay. Okay.
I love it. Especially you used to go to the place all the time after. >> Yeah, I see. Um, yeah.
Precancer, after cancer. Yes. >> Yep. >> What is the best road trip you've ever been on?
>> I don't think I've been on one that far. Honestly, I'm going to say my last year when I did the Bryce Canyon in Utah, even though I did complain in the narrows freezing with no legs, but yeah, that was great. I was with my son. What can I say?
>> I love that. We spent a lot of this conversation talking about progress over perfection. And you know our company mile marker, the reason we named it that is because it helps measure your progress, right? So I want you to complete this sentence.
It can be personal or professional, right? But finish my sentence. Progress is blank. >> Progress is rewarding.
>> Love that. That's a great answer. What's the best flavor of ice cream? >> Oh, pistachio.
>> Okay, solid. Best book you've read or listened to in the past 12 months? >> Let Them by Mel Robbins. Okay, I love it.
All right, final question of the mile marker minute. There is an alternate universe and in this universe, Jen Goldman has nothing to do with financial services or operating financial services companies. What is your career in that alternate universe? >> I'm already doing it.
Scaling nonprofits around food and security. >> Oh, I love it. I love it. That's >> I have to think beyond that.
You're not going to get me there. I wouldn't know the answer. Yep. >> You did it.
You survived the mile marker minute. you jam-packed a ton of insights into this conversation. I'm very thankful that you came on the show and dropped all this knowledge with our audience. So, thanks for doing that.
>> No, thank you guys for asking me. It's awesome. >> Of course. All right, everybody.
That's been another episode of Next Mile. Please make sure you click, follow, or subscribe wherever you're paying attention to this. And if you'd be kind enough, leave us a fivestar review so somebody who's never heard of this show or never heard of this industry can find great conversations like the one I just had with Jen. It could be them or the difference between them starting an RAA and growing and scaling all because of what they learned from what Jen dropped today just because you left a review.
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